DISQUS

The Wisdom of Clouds: Is Amazon in Danger of Becoming the WallMart of the Cloud?

  • Thorsten - CTO RightScale · 1 year ago
    James, that company is spelled Walmart, you may want to fix that...

    Regarding your point about Amazon crossing a line, you are correct that we shall see where they go. Thus far they have only pre-announced features with virtually zero details and we've had a long and cooperative relationship with many, many people at Amazon and expect that to continue. So, I'd like to clarify how we regard this news as an Amazon partner.

    Really, nothing that Amazon has pre-announced this week is unexpected. Load balancing at the cloud infrastructure level has been on our wish list since the beginning, and we're agnostic about monitoring. In fact, we'll provide support for both those new services within RightScale when they launch. All part of our philosophy to let our customers choose.

    Also, the auto-scaling they pre-announced simply connects monitored events with the launching of instances. In our view, that's important, but only part of the puzzle. The more challenging task is to provide an overall system design and architecture where the auto-launched instances configure themselves into cohesive, resilient clusters, as well as to offer a development environment that supports workflow and lifecycle features such as versioning. That is what RightScale offers through it's server template architecture, and why our management platform has been much more than a dashboard for some time -- offering a complete solution with pre-packaged software stacks, training & support to give companies a quick and effective on-ramp to the cloud. For more detail on today's pre-announcement in relation to our platform, check out blog.rightscale.com.

    Also, with due respect and admiration to Amazon for it's truly brilliant pioneering role in establishing cloud computing and storage, AWS VP Adam Selipsky, has stated, "Any time you have a large and attractive market, you'll have more than one winner." In other words, it's become a multi-cloud world. We expect that RightScale's role as a neutral provider of multi-cloud support and portability will preserve our distinct place in the cloud management market as an enabling platform for both customers and ISVs -- even as we continue to be a cooperative partner for Amazon.
  • Mark · 1 year ago
    Hmm, the this post has an element to it which, IMO, is similar to the anti-globalization lobby. Groups who urge - 'buy local' - while African's are denied an opportunity to fully exploit their land's natural advantages, largely because they can't sell their goods into the EU, etc. without heavy tariffs.

    Specifically, you might also want to research what the comments of some of the Ylastic folk say about these developments before scare mongering in their name - everything I've read suggests they don't share your insight.

    Now if only these anti-globalization folk would bother to talk to some of the people outside the EU before they campaign about 'buying-local'.... probably too much to expect in one lifetime :)
  • jamesurquhart · 1 year ago
    I'm sorry you see it that way. There is no element of globalization policy intended or, in my opinion, communicated in this post. It was a statement of a time in rural Iowa, and its *possible* analogy in the cloud. What happened, happened. In point of fact, most small towns survived Walmart, but many businesses didn't.

    So its impossible that I tied Ylastic or any of these other companies with an opinion on anything but the disruptive nature of a "superstore" on competing small businesses. I've spoke with Ylastic's CTO, Prabhakar Chaganti, and I know how they are pitching their product. I stand by *my opinion* that Ylastic will find any Amazon-promoted GUI a challenge to their current model.

    At worst, you can accuse me of being resistant to a valid disruptive business model. Which is probably fair. I may also be completely wrong.

    Don't try to cast this as a political message that it is not. It distracts from the real question: is Amazon in danger of cannibalizing the entrepreneurial ecosystem of small businesses and startups that organically sprung up around it in the cloud?
  • Mark · 1 year ago
    Your post raises a valid concern - one that several people have raised elsewhere. RS have, to their credit, indicated in several posts that they don't share the fear (for the moment at least).

    My reference to globalization debate was probably poorly expressed - I pointed out your post shared an element with the globalization lobby. Specifically, raising fears on others behalf.
    Anyway, I wanted to illustrate the example of third parties 'campaigning' or raising issues/fears without really doing their homework -
    of course opinions should always be freely given.

    Some observations in the context of your shopping market:
    - Observe a shopping center/mall. Aren't there typically anchor tenants (Kmart/Walmart/Target etc.) and specialty stores in the one mall? Don't the speciality stores often carry products similar to, but more specialized than those in Target/Kmart/Walmart etc? Isn't one cited role of anchor tenants to draws crowds, and for the specialty stores to access the passing traffic volume - traffic volume they wouldn't necessarily attract on their own. Isn't it reasonable to compare AWS to the anchor tenant and Ylastic/RS to the specialty stores? In RS case they appear to see themselves as a specialty vendor that will happily co-exist along side a Walmart anchor tenant (AWS) or a Target anchor tenant (Eucalyptus?, Globus/Nimbus?)
    - Next note what has happened with JungleDisk - acquired by RackSpace. If I follow your logic, you'd seem to want that: (A) AWS shouldn't compete with its ecosystem. Rather they must develop that ecosystem so that an AWS competitor can come and cannibalize it? Interesting logic. Or (B) do you propose that AWS should only compete with their 'community ecosystem' after one of their competitors acquires one of their community?
    What if AWS look at the community efforts and think 'Nope. We don't think they have got it right. We need to have much better'. Are their hands to be tied? Should AWS have give away all of their ideas for someone else to profit from?

    I think lurking in your logic is the sentiment that there can only be one successful offering, all else are doomed to failure. That seems to me to be a little like claiming no specialty store can expect to succeed in a mall that has a Walmart/Kmart/Target present. Or, no more than one specialty store can survive/thrive.

    Finally, it is disturbing that you assign 0 (zero) weight to the consumer in all this. Your very emotive description:
    "Amidst this traumatic upheaval appeared a great beast, threatening to suck what little life was left out of small town retail businesses."

    Could equally have this counterpart:
    "After decades of having the life sucked out of the family budget, residents could afford life's essentials without having to work overtime on weekends just to pay the local vampires running their cozy monopolies. Time spent slaving to buy something warm for winter was replaced by time spent with family on holidays.
    The local blood suckers had long used their excess profits to ensure they controlled the local retail space - ensuring their inefficient monopoly. They also paid enough money to local sport and community bodies to ensure that their threats to withdraw support, if their representatives weren't elected to council, would leave a community crippled."

    Of course that would never happen in smaller communities.
    Never :)
  • Tross · 1 year ago
    I've watched this cottage industry emerge around Amazon's AWS. It's fantastic, exciting, and truly awesome. I wondered if they purposely left things to crude and rough around the edges just to inspire the creative and entrepreneurial spirits among us. But then maybe that would be just too damn smart for their own good ;-).

    In fact, my take is that this week's discussion helps support the point. It's far less likely that Amazon are immensely smart enough to accurately predict years in advance - analogous to 6 chess moves in advance - than the likelihood they're moving as quickly as they can making as much improvements, features etc. that they can to build up the community from zero to nearly half a million registered users. They are moving so fast, it's no surprise that they make the odd mistake.

    Venture money from the likes of Benchmark and even Amazon CEO Bezos has made it into this growing cottage industry. IMHO, they're doing their best to balance the importance of the ecosystem with the importance of making a bigger, better, faster product offering. They've hired up all sorts of ex MSFT folks who were the best at milking the ISV community of yesteryear - they mean business and that includes the ISV ecosystem.

    However, with competition from folks like rackspace or gogrid with claims of better/easier to use web consoles - that gets them moving. And it was probably a different department that made the decision than the organization that focuses left over microsofties to milk the ISVs :-).

    No, IMHO, even Amazon is mortal and makes mistakes. Sometimes moving too quickly, you'll make the odd mistake.

    Now, just because amazon values the cottage industry they inspired, be advised, b/c if you're too successful, they may come after you. It's a delicate line we must all walk.

    Tross
  • Reuven Cohen, Founder Enomaly · 1 year ago
    It's fairly obvious to me that Amazon doesn't care about whether or not they compete with their community ecosystem. To give a little background, at Enomaly we created the first examples of how to run Windows on EC2 (October 2006) and with ElasticDrive (January 2007), one of the first persistent block storage systems for EC2 / S3 and helped create several AWS usergroups. Yet we were shut out of both betas of their elastic block storage (EBS) and more recently the Windows on Ec2 beta.

    Don't get me wrong, the AWS services are awesome, but their partner program is worst I've seen. Regardless of Rightscales admiration for AWS, it sucks when your trusted partners decide to compete against you. If as a cloud entrepreneur this truly doesn't bother you, then you're obviously delusional.

    My suggestion is don't put all your eggs in one cloud when looking to build a business completely dependent on someone elses infrastructure.
  • Mark · 1 year ago
    Interesting observations Reuven.
    I'd followed Enomaly, and perhaps I've misread everything. In my mind I had you listed as a direct competitor to AWS. Rather than a specialist vendor offering some products that leveraged off some of the AWS offerings. I had come think of Enomaly as a commercial version of Globus/Nimbus or Eucalyptus. Specifically, offering some AWS connectivity (e.g. spawning EC2 instances) but fundamentally offering someone the ability to replicate AWS's components. I suppose I had mentally listed you along with Google, Microsoft, GoGrid and RackSpace.
    If that is correct then I'm not surprised they exclude you from their Beta programmes. In which case wouldn't AWS be the ones saying "it sucks when your trusted partners decide to compete against you"
    As a consumer I must say I love it :)

    Of course if you are more like RightScale than GoGrid, then you probably should be a little miffed.
    It'll be interesting to see how they treat JungleDisk now that RackSpace has acquired it.
  • Dmitriy · 1 year ago
    As I was reading your post, I found myself more leaning to Microsoft analogy (that you mentioned in the 2nd to last paragraph) rather than Walmart. After all, Walmart was expanding into new territories, and smaller stores that it displaced were never part of Walmart ecosystem to begin with.

    Now, if (or when) AWS announces a supersmall 1-cent-an-hour instance type and undercuts pricing of all general-purpose VPS hosting companies on the planet, *that* would be more of a Walmart-like move.

    Thanks for an insightful post.

    Cheers,
    Dmitriy
  • trevoro · 1 year ago
    James,

    Really interesting that you mentioned this. I wrote about something similar earlier on my post called Walmart Computing
  • jamesurquhart · 1 year ago
    Trevor,

    An excellent post yourself...I like the application of the economies of scale argument to the concept of "big box clouds". In fact, I like your blog in general. I am now a subscriber.

    James
  • homesteading · 11 months ago
    i agree, commercialism has invaded rural areas therefore "killing" town businesses. as much as we want to "save" them, there is also what we call "saving" money. the most logical thing is to probably go where the goods are cheap.